DR JANE MCLARTY:
A very warm welcome to you to the 16th Annual Disability Lecture. My name's Jane McLarty. I was... more years ago than I care to remember, I was the university's first disability adviser when it was me, a part-time assistant, and also the help of a small Jack Russell Terrier. It's now a much more professional organisation, you'll be glad to hear. First of all, some thanks. Thanks to St John's College and particularly to Mr Ray Jobling, sitting there in the front, for hosting and providing such excellent service and support. And thank you to John Harding also sitting there, rogue's corner, obviously, and his team at the DRC. And particularly the lecture planning group, headed by Kirsty who is also in that corner, Kirsty Wayland. Also to the Equality and Diversity section for their financial support and staffing today.

There have been a record number of bookings for this event and we sold out very quickly. And for this we thank the Science Festival for including it as one of their events in their publicity. A little bit of housekeeping type notices. Please be aware that a photographer and videographer will be working, as per the signs outside, you may have noticed. If you don't want to be included in the photos, please approach a member of the DRC team. You'll notice them, they're wandering about with badges. I should probably at this point say, please turn your mobile phones off if you haven't done already. And also just take note of where the fire exits are. So on either side and at the back there.

Right. Well, this year we have chosen to focus on the important topic of mental health. As a University, we see brilliant students experiencing difficult times with their mental health. The Disability Resource Centre has seen a 200% increase in student disclosure of mental health conditions over the last four years. And the total number of students who have disclosed a mental health condition is now over a thousand. And just so that you get a sense of the increase, back in 2008 it was 35. So, this is the scale of the issue and of the, you know, the increase of the issue, which we know is also a national concern. According to the Centre for Mental Health, one in five young people experience a common mental illness at any one time. And in response to this increase in the prevalence of mental health conditions, the University has launched a student mental health strategy involving students, staff and key stakeholders across the Collegiate University, including the DRC and our University Counselling Service.

So, this initiative recognises the greater number of students seeking support for reasons of mental health. And it seeks to further develop an educational environment in which all students are able to thrive and to reach their potential. And this is a great opportunity to develop inclusive ways of working and studying for all students and all staff. Because I think we want an environment that's healthy for everybody. The Vice Chancellor in his October address set out his vision, to ensure that as well as increasing our diversity, we also ensure that Cambridge offers an equally positive experience to all. And this will require us in the University to move away from models which may have served us well in the past, and to recognise new ways of working which more effectively support the key principles of accessibility, inclusion and diversity.

To continue to attract the brightest and the best, and to work with them to get the best results and a positive experience of Cambridge, working in a mentally healthy environment must be a priority for us all. So, I think this topic of this lecture is very timely. And now I'd like to turn to welcoming our speaker Poppy Jaman OBE. Just to say a few words about her, she's an internationally respected mental health advocate, she's a national policy adviser and a social entrepreneur who's played an instrumental part in making mental health a high priority for public and private sector employers. Her talk is entitled Mental Health Conditions Are Not Synonymous with Failure. And she's going to talk about her personal experiences whilst developing and leading a successful social enterprise, Mental Health First Aid England. So, I think we're in for a fascinating time. So, I very much look forward to hearing what you've got say, Poppy.

(APPLAUSE)
POPPY JAMAN OBE:
Thank you so much. It's a real honour to be here, and a little bit scary seeing such a full room in this very prestigious College. I'd like to start by asking you a question. Could you raise your hand or indicate to me or nod if you have ever experienced a mental health issue?

Plenty of hands going up in the room. Keep your hand up if you felt any embarrassment, shame or just didn't have the language to speak about it. Yeah. So, almost the same number of people just by looking at that. So, there's an experience that unites us and we all share in the room to just get us going. So, over the last year, around one in four people in our country struggled with a mental health issue. Looking around, that's a quarter of the audience in this room. In any given week, one in six of us reports experiencing a common mental health problem, like anxiety or depression. And if you're a man aged between 20 and 49 years old, did you know that the most common cause of death amongst your age group is suicide? Deeply shocking. Worldwide around 800,000 people died from suicide every year, that's one person every 40 seconds. Globally, suicide is the leading cause of death amongst 15 to 29-year olds. Mental ill-health costs the UK economy 99 billion a year and is responsible for the loss of 91 million working days a year, that's more than for any other illness. And all these disturbing statistics are framed by the fact that 40%, that 40% of people die... Sorry. All these disturbing statistics are framed by the fact that 40% of people with diagnosable mental illness receive no treatment or access, no help at all. As well as this, 75% of mental health issues start before the age of 21.

This is the context in which Mental Health First Aid England, an organisation I led for 10 years, was formed. We wanted to change attitudes to mental health, to remove the negative association surrounding it and to lose the stigma. We wanted to make it easier for people to talk about difficult feelings and thoughts. We're used to having first aiders in our organisations, people trained to help us when we get a physical injury. Our aim was to have mental health first aiders working alongside them. People trained to recognise signs of mental distress in others. People who know how to confidently approach someone and start a conversation. People who know how to listen non-judgmentally and who can help those in turmoil find the support they need. If we could get this right, we believe the world would be a better place.

In my 11 years as a mental health first aider, I've used my skills to support hundreds of people including myself and my family. I don't know how many of my mental health first aid conversations saved a life, but I am sure that every conversation moved that person from a place of, from a place of hope to a place of shame. I'd like to share with you what hope means to me. I'm second generation British Bangladeshi. My granddad came to Portsmouth in 1959, having served in the Merchant Navy for 20 years. At the tender age of 12, my dad joined him. They worked hard to provide food, shelter and education to the family back home. As a result... As a result, my dad lost his childhood, and a few years ago he passed away at the age of 64, robbed of his old age, too. He was part of a generation of lonely young men who sacrificed everything to create a better future for their families. I was born in Bangladesh in a house made of mud and straw. It was small and crowded. We had no electricity, no sanitation or running water. My grandma reared chickens and sold eggs to buy our first bit of paddy field to grow rice in. My mum was just 14 when she married my dad on one of his rare visits to Bangladesh. She was 15 when I was born, and my dad was back in England. We joined him in Portsmouth two years later.

So, here you have a young couple without role models or the support of an extended family doing their best to beat poverty, raise children and have a sense of identity in an environment when nothing feels familiar, especially the language. You can understand why preserving their values and culture through food, dress, religion, language, marriage customs and gender roles was so important to them. They struggle, they adapt. They'd find a place in their migrated life that sort of works for them. And then I, the eldest of three children, hit the dreaded teens. I was an intelligent, ambitious, Bollywood-loving, dance-loving, religion hopping, contradiction filled, know-it-all teenager. Trouble and extremely troubled. The constants in my life were my school routine and some unforgettable teachers who made a lasting impression on me. Some were racist, motivating the activist in me. But others opened up my world, inspired me, helped me dream and led me to believe that anything was possible. I became skilled at managing multiple parallel lives. I was head girl and I bunked school. I was a grade A maths and science student with ambitions of becoming an electronics engineer, yet I knew I'd be lucky if I was allowed to attend college at all. I was my mother's main support, yet I was self-harming. As a parent now, I know I can say that I was every parent's nightmare. Eventually my risk-taking behaviour got so bad, my parents became desperate and decided it was time I was married.

(LAUGHS)

So at 17, I was made to marry someone six years older than me, who I met for only the second time on the day of our wedding in a country I didn't recognise as home. A couple of years later, I became a mum and I also got my first diagnosis of depression. I wanted to be a good parent, and I wanted to die. Life was dark for a while. I got really unwell and scared that I would lose my child to poor parenting. So, I left my marriage, I couldn't afford to be ill. I was a single parent and I was driven by my need to be a good mother. I knew I had to achieve financial freedom, poverty as a single parent was not an option either. Like my dad, I lost my childhood to work, parenting and mental illness. I often wonder what difference a few good quality conversations would have made in my childhood. Conversations like the ones Mental Health First Aiders are so skilled at, and my parents could have been helped by them too. I believe Mental Health First Aid is successful because it's built on a thousand stories like mine. And it's really important that our stories are heard, it's not about the particular things that happen to me, it's about the fact that I experience depression, anxiety and mental illness in response to them.

Which is a common part of human experience. I also wonder where I'd be now without the support I got when I needed it most. Those small acts of kindness that made all the difference to me. The health visitor who noticed that behind my mask of coping with young motherhood, I was falling apart. She took me away from the bustle of the busy Health Centre waiting room. She encouraged me to look closely at the healthy happy baby I'd brought into the world. She assured me my daughter was fine and then gently asked me how I was. I broke down in tears and she... and she cared enough to take action. She went against the grain of normal practise and found a doctor to come and see me straightaway. An act of professional kindness that set me on my road to recovery. On another occasion, I found myself wandering along a deserted wind-swept beach, thinking of ways to put an end to my emotional pain. Lost in thought, I tripped and fell. I wasn't physically hurt but I was upset. I thought I was alone but out of nowhere a stranger appeared. He approached me carefully, respectfully with open hands as if to make it plain, I had nothing to fear. I wasn't afraid. He asked me a simple question, ‘Are you OK? I noticed you fell over and you're crying.’ I told him I think my life is over. What I said startled me. I sat down on the stony beach and he sat down beside me. Neither of us said a word. We didn't even look at each other. We just sat there watching the waves. I felt supported, held by his compassion. After a while, I got to my feet, thanked him, and went home. I never found out who he was or saw him again, but I'll never forget how his simple act of kindness made me feel.

The most important part of my work is encouraging people to look carefully, to notice without the simple act of noticing, we can't begin to reach out or give support. The people who helped me have may have just been doing their jobs well or being their authentic compassionate selves, but the impact their simple acts of kindness had on me was life-changing and life-saving. Thanks to them, I stand before you today as a leader in the mental health sector. It's a reminder that who we are and what we go on to achieve is built on a bedrock of support from those who we come across in our lives. Family, friends, teachers, colleagues, coaches, mentors, health workers, kind strangers - simply too many people to mention. In the words of the old saying, ‘it takes a village to raise a child’. And I'm proud to say that Mental Health First Aiders make a vital and positive contribution to the many villages that make up our world. We teach others to notice when someone is in distress and encourage them to reach out, listen, and offer support. We should never underestimate the life-changing potential of such simple acts of kindness. Sometimes I wish I could go back and thank all those people who changed my life for the better. But then I remember that the work I do now is paying it forward, which is the best possible way of honouring them. Work played a vital part in my recovery from poor mental health.

Even though I was ill, my intuition told me I needed routine and purpose. So when my daughter was just three weeks old, I went for an interview and got the job. It was a part-time role at the Citizens Advice Bureau which paid less than being on benefits, but it gave me what I needed to kickstart my life. Soon I was working for adult mental health services in a community team. We set up and ran support services for people coming out of hospital care. My team helped them gain confidence with everyday things like shopping, cooking and paying the bills. Around this time my manager, Fiona, suggested I join a leadership and career development program. I didn't think I was up to it. After all, I was just a school leaver with mental health issues. I'd done well to be managing a small team in the community on a basic salary. Who was I to think I could be anything more?

I was paralysed by the imposter syndrome. A persistent voice in my head telling me, it was only a matter of time before I got found out. But Fiona knew what I needed. Looking back, I realised Fiona saw something in me that I was unaware of. I could hardly believe it when I was offered a place on the program. A program that was to profoundly change the direction of my career and my life. I found myself in a room full of people who looked like me. We talked about the way race, gender, discrimination affected us. We shared how we saw the world and our place in it and for the first time ever I understood how being an Asian woman in the UK had affected my mental health. The journey of self-discovery was both disturbing and strengthening. I felt like my roots were nourished and nurtured, and I stepped into my identity as a British Bangladeshi woman. Until then, I'd always felt like a visitor because my parents raised me as one. A common narrative in migrant communities. The leadership program also gave me the chance to develop a personal vision. A vision of a world where mental health is no longer seen as the poor relation of physical health. I wanted to raise mental health awareness through education on a global scale. Seven years later, that vision started to take shape when Mental Health First Aid England was born. Just as my recovery from mental illness, ill health, wouldn't have been possible without those simple acts of kindness from others.

My work vision would never have seen the light of day without mentors to guide me. Fiona was one but there's many...there were many others too, and I'd like to tell you about two more of them. First Sheila. Sheila was the chief executive of Portsmouth Mental Health Trust where I worked. She was a role model for me, powerful and compassionate. Sheila was also a very busy woman but despite the demands of her role, she made time for me and encouraged me to apply for a job I thought was beyond me. I was fuelled by her belief in my ability and skills. She taught me to take risks and worry less about failure. To my amazement, I got the job. At the Department of Health, surrounded by exceptional people, I started to find my professional voice. I ended up leading on three mental health... three national mental health programs. Then there was Richard, my new boss. Another person who took the time to mentor me. One day, Richard asked me about my career plans, I told him I felt like an impostor surrounded by academics and doctors. He agreed that my CV needed work as I didn't...as it didn't accurately reflect my skills and experiences. And he said, fine. If you feel like an impostor, let's get you a qualification. So I enrolled on an MBA, which thanks to Richard, the department paid for. Richard has had a profound influence on the way I manage others. He taught me that leadership is about developing people for life, not just the jobs they're in now. It's about helping people realise their potential, helping them be the best that they can be. It's about taking a chance. I learned a lot on that MBA.... Course. But I learned a lot on that MBA course but was puzzled by something. Why was business success only measured in terms of money? I couldn't understand why we were not being taught social value. Why the bottom line only spoke about profit? Why leadership barely touched on purpose?

In 2009, I got my chance to create an organisation that challenged that received wisdom. Mental Health First Aid England, a community interest company was born. A community interest company operates like any other business. It generates profit, or surplus as we like to call it, and that surplus is reinvested back into the community interest, which in the case of Mental Health First Aid, is to increase mental health literacy. Back in 2009, we were optimistic and idealistic. Little did we realise what we'd let ourselves inform. In year one we made a loss, which is not surprising. However, in year two, we made an even bigger loss. I lost sleep and weight worrying about it. But since those early days, Mental Health First Aid England has gone from strength to strength. Today, the London office is home to a team of around 83 full-time professionals, 45 national trainers, 120 associates, and nearly 2,000 instructors, and a community of 380,000 Mental Health First Aiders in England. And there are almost 3 million Mental Health First Aiders globally. We've trained people from all walks of life. Some of whom are quite well-known government ministers, like Norman Lamb and Jeremy Hunt, Sadiq Khan, Dame Kelly Holmes, Prince Harry while he was still serving in the armed forces. And in 2017, I was invited to Downing Street to brief the prime minister and her cabinet on World Mental Health Day. Corporates like the Welcome Trust, WHSmith, Ford, Sky, BBC, Unilever, EY, PwC, Deloitte and at least 30 Universities were amongst hundreds of organisations rolling out Mental Health First Aid training. They recognise that if they want to attract, retain and grow talent, they need to create healthier workplaces.

And I've taken an active role in the wider world, too. I've helped develop mental health programs in Bangladesh, Tanzania and Uganda. My own struggles with mental ill-health gifted me insight. My community development roots made me aware of my moral compass. The leadership program gave me the opportunity to think about my vision for the first time in my life. And the MBA taught me business acumen. They all came together to give me the knowledge, confidence and energy I needed to lead Mental Health First Aid England. For us, making a profit always came second. We regarded it as necessary but not a sufficient measure of success. In 2015 on International Women's Day, Mental Health First Aid England was recognised as the ninth fastest growing women-led small business in the UK. In 2017, according to the Financial Times, we were one of Europe's fastest growing companies. And last year as I left my role as its CEO, Mental Health First Aid England turned over nearly 6 million with a surplus of around about 20%. So as I reflect on the journey so far, the thing I keep coming back to is the kindness of others who helped me along the way. Without the people who encouraged me, believed in me, took a chance on me and backed me, I'm convinced I wouldn't be standing here before you today sharing my story.

Take a moment to think about the people in your world. Who could benefit from your support and encouragement? Running an ethical business or an organisation is about looking out for each other. It's about making sure we put more into society than we take out. It's about creating a community and businesses and organisations with heart which is a... which is also a great place to work and connect with. Work doesn't just provide us with money, it can give us, give our lives meaning and purpose. It can make us and those around us happy. It can be good for our mental health. The ancient Greeks had a word for it, ‘eudaimonia'. Which means both human flourishing and prosperity. In my experience, human flourishing is not only compatible with success. It's essential to it. Thank you.

(APPLAUSE)
DR JANE MCLARTY:
Before you started the lecture, we were just looking at the crowd and thinking there's a lot of women in it. And at the start of your talk, you gave those awful statistics about the major cause of death for young men.
POLLY JAMAN OBE:
Yeah. And I think it's, you know it's indicative, isn't it? That actually what is it that we're not doing right to engage our men. You know, what is it? How do we reach out and do that? And how do we encourage men to engage in the mental health conversation? Because to... I mean, I think it's something like 78% of suicides that are registered are men. You know, we really need to pay attention to that. And when we're actually, you know, raising... From a parental perspective, you know we're raising families. We need to actually ensure that our little people, boys and girls, are mental health literate. And actually, it's fine to cry and express emotion. And I think we're very far away from that in society.

And I think it's almost like there's a, you know, there's a... To relate to mental health or talk about emotions is seen as weakness and therefore it doesn't fit in to a masculine identity. But I just think that's old school thinking, isn't it? Surely we've moved on in society and if we haven't, then we should be. So, I think it's really important that everybody that's here today goes away and has a conversation with a friend or a partner or a child about mental health. About mental emotional literacy. And feelings-orientated conversations so that we start to build communities and families and organisations and businesses that are emotionally literate regardless of what gender you are. And it'll be good to come back and do this again in a few years’ time, and see, actually, a lot more men in the audience because we've reached that. And I do think it's a cultural shift that will take a generation. But we need to work towards and being conscious of it.
DR JANE MCLARTY:
Yeah. I mean it's interesting you mentioned Prince Harry has just done a mental health training. And he's certainly, it seems to me, tried to...
POPPY JAMAN OBE:
Yeah.
DR JANE MCLARTY:
... talk about mental health and...
POPPY JAMAN OBE:
Well, the Royals have done a great job haven't they? In the last few years of giving attention. I mean, their campaign Heads Together has played a big part in our society and in popular culture to actually normalise the conversation around mental health, and I think that's good. Because it means that it's raised awareness. And if people in that, you know, with that kind of status are talking about mental health and their own feelings and emotions, then it gives permission to other people to do so because it makes it OK. And I would say that, you know, this idea that help-seeking and mental health conditions that, you know, the name of the lecture, it's not synonymous with failure, it really isn't. And I think most people in this room probably get that. But how do we express that and how do we repeatedly say that so that people... the message lands?
DR JANE MCLARTY:
Yeah. yeah. You started to touch on, you know, modern culture. And we hear a lot of talk about resilience. Don't we? It's what young people lack. It's resilience. What do you think about that? What's your thought on that?
POPPY JAMAN OBE:
Well, you know... So, my understanding of resilience is that, you know, I've got the resources that I need to be able to respond to issues, challenges that are coming into my life. So, those resources could be a number of different things. But I have a problem with the term 'resilience' because when we say in organisations that, you know we want to make people more resilient, we put the onus on the individual for recovery. And that's not OK because actually there's a social, political, economical, cultural... There's all these other factors that cause us stress and distress. So, to make you more resilient by giving you loads of training and then going, ‘but why aren't you coping? 'Cause we've made you resilient?’ is outrageous. So, I think in the true sense, it's great. I'd love to be more resilient and know what helps me become resilient.

And actually, it's taking care of my mental health, like my physical health. So, good relationships, exercise, meaning and purpose, all of those things. If they're balanced in my life, I'm bound to be better equipped at dealing with challenges that life faces. Like bereavement. Like a relationship breakdowns. Like financial issues. But to make me more resilient so that I can toughen up and take more is not OK. So, I think that you know, that's my view on it. And therefore, I encourage organisations to think carefully about labelling training and going down that road of ‘Let's make everybody more resilient’. Let's solve the problem that's causing the issues in the first place together.
DR JANE MCLARTY:
Yeah. Yeah. And one of the issues that many people, you know, might put some blame on is the role of social media in people’s lives today. I mean, do you have any thoughts about...
POPPY JAMAN OBE:
Yeah. I mean, I think if the social media... I mean, if you've got CEO's of social media platforms who are refusing to give their kids access to social media.

(LAUGHTER)

Happy to make lots of money from it but actually protecting their own. So, I think when you read things like that and when you speak to, you know... So, when I speak to people that are in the tech industry that go well, you know, this is how I manage in my family, I think it's a very strong indicator that's there's knowledge there. And there's enough insight there that it's not necessarily good for you. But I've been pondering on this and I wonder is it... Aww, we've got a little one up there.

(LAUGHS)

I want to cuddle.

(LAUGHTER)

So, but I think... you know, so I'm quite active on social media and actually I found it a great way to connect with people all over the world. So, I've got a saree collection to die for at which, you know, I didn't want to give that away. But I have, but that's 'cause I'm connected over 100,000 women in a social media network around the world. We share our insights. We share, you know the weaves and all of that sort of stuff that goes with that network. But there's evidence to show, I think it's from the Mental Health Foundation that says that social media platforms have proved incredibly successful at accessing... Providing access to people that are almost vulnerable in our society, in terms of connecting, in terms of gaining information. Getting information, too.

So, I think there are positives. But I think what I would say is, is social media supporting what you want to do with your life? Or has it become your life? And I think that's the difference. So, we know also from other research that if you're on a social media platform throughout the night or late at night, that there's a high correlation with mood disorders and mental health issues. So, I guess for me, the question comes to are you connecting with people for real? Friends, family. Are you active in getting out into green spaces, which we know is good for our health and being active. Whatever shape that takes for you is good for our well-being. Have you got meaning and purpose in life? Have you got interests in life that are actually fuelled by social media channels. So, I think it's those questions. You know, is your social media activity compensating or taking over your life? Or is it actually adding value to the things that you're interested in and you find fulfilling in life? So, I think the question has to be quite specific when we're talking about social media. But too much of anything is not great for our society.
DR JANE MCLARTY:
Yeah. So, it's being a bit reflective really.
POPPY JAMAN OBE:
Yeah. Yeah. And it's... And I think, you know, for younger people - so again, I've got... I'm mum to two daughters and a step-mum to two sons. And it's incredible the social media activity or the engagement with their gadgets. I don't really know what they're doing on them most of the time, but I know that I have to say, you know, put the phone down if we're eating dinner or whatever. And my husband might have talked about it. And in hindsight, we probably wouldn't have given them phones at 11 or 12, whenever we did.
DR JANE MCLARTY:
So difficult though, isn't it? On social lives, they're revolving around phones even at that age.
POPPY JAMAN OBE:
Yeah. And this anxiety about not being safe. I mean, that's where it came from for me, was, you know... But in hindsight and with a bit of life experience behind me, actually, I don't... Maybe I wouldn't have panicked and been as anxious. So, in hindsight, maybe we wouldn't have given them gadgets. But the other thing that we find and, again, is a common story, is that whole feeling of social media can often trigger feelings of envy. And then, body dysmorphia. So, 'cause everybody looks like they're having so much more fun on social media than you are. And if you are a young person who's at a very influential stage in life and your body's changing and your hormones are all over the place.

You know, we all go through that phase of comparing ourselves to everybody else. And I think that's a critical time where social media can either be a real hindrance and take us off into a bit of a ruminating all the negatives. Or we can have interventions and conversations with our children to help navigate them in a slightly different way. So, that sort of brings me back to how I think parents, teachers, Universities... We've all got a responsibility in understanding the issues and just not going, ‘Oh, social media's the cause of everything.’ It's understanding - how is it?
DR JANE MCLARTY:
Yeah. Thinking about it, a bit more. Yeah. I mean, in the University context where we, you know, we are trying to offer more support to students. You know you sometimes hear people saying, well, you know, ‘This isn't preparing young people for the real world.’ Great that they're getting more support in University, but then they're going to be out in the big wide world where it might not be available.
POPPY JAMAN OBE:
My response to that, I mean, I just always find it really funny when that comes up. You know, my response to that is well, you know, what is this illusive real world? Surely...

(LAUGHTER)

Surely a five-year-old's real world is now and so is a 15-year-old, and so is a 25-year-olds, and so is a 50-year-olds. And so, the real world is now. So, we need to support people and give people the skills and be compassionate. Because this illusive real world doesn't exist particularly when you've got suicide rates in the student population going up by, is it 75% between 2007, 2015 in this country? There might be that all sorts of reasons about how it's being recorded etc. But it's not a positive story for the student population. You know, what is great is 50% more students are asking for support and the figures that you gave around reaching out, wanting counselling, wanting therapy. So, we need to be able to respond to that. And I think, you know, life is life, isn't it? So, I've shared my story. And you could look at that and go, well actually, you experience bereavement. You experienced a life relationship break down. There were cultural differences. So actually, there was that teenage angst - all of those things are normal.

You know, most people I speak to will be able to relate to at least one part of that. No matter how different our backgrounds are. So, I just think, you know, that was my real world at 16 and 17. It may be very different from where you were at 16, 17, but your real world probably had a whole load of other different things. So, I just think that it's not even a question. I think you need to chuck it out and go, 'OK'. You know, we're here. We've got these challenges. And more importantly, we want to be centres of excellence for well-being. We want to create an environment where young people leave here so confident about their whole lives. So confident and welcoming becoming a parent and becoming whatever that they want to become and being active in the world. And actually, with a social conscious that they want to give back more to society, than they've actually received in their journey here. And we need to role model that. Universities can role model what good care, good support looks like, and what we receive is what we'll give back. So, yeah, that's how I would frame that.
DR JANE MCLARTY:
Thank you, thank you. Another term you hear banded about all the time these days is ‘young people are snowflakes’. Do you think there are more pressures on young people these days or...?
POPPY JAMAN OBE:
I just, you know, as a parent of four young people, youngest two 18, I find that offensive. I just, I think that, you know, I don't think my children are snowflakes, whatever that means. I don't even know what that means. That means that what? They're just they're weak? They're not resilient enough? It's back to that, isn't it?
DR JANE MCLARTY:
I think so, yeah.
POPPY JAMAN OBE:
And I think that's nonsense, because actually, they're intelligent, and they've got ambition and they're powerful. And I think what we need to be telling young people, is that they're amazing, not that they're snowflakes. How does that add any value to anybody? You know, I just...so no. I disagree, and, in fact, I'm offended by that term.
DR JANE MCLARTY:
Do you think there are increasing pressures on young people?
POPPY JAMAN OBE:
Do you know, I think the pressures are different, aren't they? So I think we've got... there's the whole 'always on' culture.
DR JANE MCLARTY:
Yeah.
POPPY JAMAN OBE:
And, how actually we're always connected. And if you look at, I was thinking about this also in terms of how technology has developed. None of us, nobody asked us whether to opt into always being on. We kind of, mobile phone companies, and we were all so... it was made so easy for us. It was great, wasn't it? Cause you've got Google at the, on your fingertips. You can't ever get lost, you know. So actually, but nobody ever asked us whether we wanted to opt in and we have to opt out of being connected. That's the significant difference between when I was 18, and you know, 17, in the last 20 years of my life. And I wonder, I think that's probably the biggest difference between my generation and this generation, of this connecting and always being connected. So it frames your life in a very public way. Where is the privacy? Where is the opportunity for developing intimate relationships that's exclusive? Which actually have a very important part in all of our lives. I don't know what the implications of these are, but they're just my reflections on how society has changed, and how we need to understand it with a different lens. And just saying, it's harder, tougher now, isn't probably enough. It's reflecting on why there is difference. And you know, and again, going back to my story, that was a tough teenage and young adulthood experience. But I don't think I can compare to where some young people are now. So I don't think we can compare, I think, it is what it is, and it's different. And we need to understand it, to evolve as human beings, and evolve as communities.
DR JANE MCLARTY:
Actually, I found your account of your growing up very moving and inspiring. And I must admit, when you were recounting your teenage years, I thought actually depression is a healthy human reaction.
POPPY JAMAN OBE:
Yeah.
DR JANE MCLARTY:
To what you were experiencing then. It's not surprising. And I think we've got time to take some questions from the floor. If anyone has got a question that they would like to ask? So there's one at the back there. Lady in a rolled polo neck, sort pale green I think it is from here.
SPEAKER:
Thank you. First of all, I would like to thank you for the nice talk, and the good discussion afterwards. And then I would like, I have a question because I know in total three people with mental health, in my close surroundings. And I would like to know, how could I best help them or how could I assist them? How should I act towards them? So that I yeah, may be a positive influence on them or at least not to disturb them further. So I feel a bit insecure there.
POPPY JAMAN OBE:
Yeah, um, do you want me to answer that?
DR JANE MCLARTY:
Yes.
POPPY JAMAN OBE:
Yeah, so that's a great question. And you know, it's one of the...when you look at the data as well for Universities and shared homes and things, you know, when students are living together, the pressure on if somebody is unwell, with any health issues, physical and mental health has got an additional stigma. The other group or the friends that are in the shared house often struggle with, what should I do? And I think the first thing I would say to you is, get educated on it. You know, there's so much information out there, Mental Health First Aid's website has got you know, there's address your stress, tool kit. There's a whole load of take ten together, so how to have conversations, how to approach someone. From you know, simply from actually, saying things like, ‘I've noticed that these, I've noticed these things about you. You're sleeping all day, you're not getting out of bed’, whatever it is that you've noticed. And then saying, you know, ‘and I'm concerned, and I'd like to talk to you about it. And actually here is some information that I've accessed research, and there is honestly loads of stuff out there.’ Mind website, Young Mind website, Rethink, Samaritans, you name it. Student Mind is a really great place to go actually. They've got loads of information for the younger generation, but you're able to go looking at, ‘I've got this information, and I'm worried that you might be experiencing poor health, poor mental health. And here are some services, there's Local mind services, you know the University's got support services, if that's available’. And I think when people are asked the question directly, and you come from a place of genuine care and curiosity, and wanting to help, you can't really go wrong. I think it's when you think, ‘Oh, I might say the wrong thing. And I don't want to...’ You can say, ‘I might say the wrong thing, but I'm worried about you.’ So I'd just approach the conversation knowing in your heart, that you want to do the right thing. But before you do, get some information on where to go, where to sign post people, so that you can support them. But the other thing I would say is, that you might not have that... that conversation might be three conversations.

‘Cause when somebody is unwell, and you know, my own experience is as when I'm not well, I'm not very communicative. And that doesn't mean, and that can often be received as I'm being really difficult. Or that I'm you know, someone's trying to help me and I'm really frustrating them, because I'm not giving. But I literally, I get mind block. Like my words get stuck here, so that conversation might need to be two or three conversations. But, you know, you can get educated very quickly online, and those are the organisations I would go to as a starter.
DR JANE MCLARTY:
Thank you. Another question?
Oops, sorry, I'm looking up there. There's a lady down in the front.
SPEAKER:
So with so many people here in the audience, and people out in the world who have mental health conditions, how we do make sure that folks living with these conditions protect themselves while also helping those around them? So that they don't get overwhelmed by helping other people.
POPPY JAMAN OBE:
Yeah. And that self-care is really, really important. And you know, I've left Mental Health First Aid just almost a year in now, but I know that that was one component that we threaded through the whole course. You know, looking after yourself is really important, you can't drink from an empty cup. And so I would point to beginning, getting to know yourself. Cause most of us haven't ever asked ourselves, what we do to keep our mental health positive, or flourishing. We just haven't. And it's, and so we usually can give you a list of ten things that you should be doing to keep your physical health. You know, healthy eating, whether you do it or not, exercise, all of that lot. But what do we do to keep our mental health well? So, there's a great organisation 'The Five Ways to Wellbeing', that's a great website as well by the way, to go and have a look. ‘Ten Keys to Happiness' is another one. ‘Five Ways to Wellbeing’, the stuff that they talk about, and there's loads of information on there about how to look after your mental health and create good mental health for yourself. But it's things like, giving. Giving as per, you know, into a community, whatever that might look like. So giving is good for our mental health, it keeps us positive, it keeps our mindsets well. Being active is really important, healthy eating, and mood and food is really important. Sleep is number one, so actually, when we are supporting someone, or having difficult conversations and we're struggling ourselves to maintain our own sort of perspective, we need to sometimes step back and do those things that are good for us. Quick personal tips.

So one of the things that I have got is a list of things that I write down, and I change them as I sort of go, diaries. When I'm in a really good place, I create a list of things that I enjoy doing. So things like swimming, walking, catching up with friends, reading, you know, there's a whole list of stuff. And I made that list when I was in a real positive, it was on a good day. Because when you're on a bad day, or when you're beginning to decline, you lose, I lose ability to make a decision. Decisions become really hard, like the simple things, what do you want for dinner? I don't know. You know, that becomes a really hard decision. So, that list I evolve over time, and when I'm not great, I pick one, maybe two things to do and it's a non-decision, because I know that that's going to help me. And even though I don't want to do it in that space, at that point in time, it helps. So I do share that with a lot of people. Make a list of things that you, excite you, give you energy when you're in a good place, and then stick that up somewhere and change it as you change and grow in life as well. But yeah, that's a very good point, self-care has to come top.
DR JANE MCLARTY:
Thank you. One more question I think we've got time for. Let's see, we haven't had one from a gentleman, so I think the chap with the green scarf.
SPEAKER:
One thing in your fascinating autobiography, that in my view surprisingly failed to mention, was the question of religion. So I'd like to know whether you see religion as a friend or foe, of mental health?
POPPY JAMAN OBE:
So, I come back to what is...so if I look at my list of positive things, for many people and coming and being raised in a Bangladeshi Muslim family, I know that Islam provided an incredible amount of support to people in my family at different points in my, in their lives. So, we've got a history of mental health issues, and my great grand dad died of suicide. So the you know, they can track back genetically, there's been...but actually the comfort that, you know, and I wasn't around then, and my dad's told me that story. But, it's the comfort that came with faith and spirituality and religion, is second to none for people that believe. And I think that that forms a really key part of our wellbeing. So, I would say from a very personal perspective, religion is really important part of our wellbeing, and spiritual healing, if that is where we come from. And if we don't believe and have faith in a religion, then actually it doesn't, it doesn't matter but we shouldn't judge, cause I think spirituality...and I think also you know, gurdwaras, mosques, churches, are communities of enormous support. And when people are feeling lonely, and that's part of their faith, that it's easy to access and we should never underestimate the powers of those communities to heal and support each other.
DR JANE MCLARTY:
Thank you. The time has flown by, I think. But, we have reached the end of our time, there are refreshments outside, which is you know, some consolation I guess, for not hearing more from Poppy. But Poppy, thank you very much.
POPPY JAMAN OBE:
Thank you very much for inviting me.

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