Discussion 2: David Dobbs, 9th September 2010
Duration: 1 hour 52 mins 56 secs
Share this media item:
Embed this media item:
Embed this media item:
About this item
| Description: | David Dobbs writes on science, medicine and culture. He has contributed to a diversity of publications, including Scientific American, Slate magazine, Wired, Audubon, Atlantic Monthly, and the New York Times magazine. He has also authored a number of books. Other participants in this discussion were Peter Murray-Rust, Jordan Hatcher, and Rufus Pollock. |
|---|
| Created: | 2011-01-31 10:45 | ||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Collection: | Panton Discussions | ||||||||
| Publisher: | University of Cambridge | ||||||||
| Copyright: | University of Cambridge | ||||||||
| Language: | eng (English) | ||||||||
| Distribution: |
World
(downloadable)
|
||||||||
| Credits: |
|
||||||||
| Explicit content: | No | ||||||||
Transcript
Transcript:
Log of topics in Panton Discussion with David Dobbs, 9-Sep-10
Present: David Dobbs, Jordan Hatcher, Peter Murray-Rust, Rufus Pollock, (Brian Brooks recording)
Total length of recording = 1hr 52m 56s
Track# Start Time Track label Topic
1 00:00 Introduction Introduction; Panton Papers; licences; Stephen Harnad; Panton Discussions #1 - Richard Poynder; drinks;
2 06:03 David interests Outline of his interest; main obstacles to moving to Open Science; PD#1 discussion; Neylon blog - hardest part is replacing peer review; John Lubbex & peer review
3 08:15 David background Background & interests; everything is CC-BY; science writer, neurosciences, history of science; Charles Darwin book; big pharma & mess of publishing; editor Wired saw Mendeley presentation; Richard Grant; give researchers a tool that they need; working on article; divide interview into chunks
4 12:17 Panton Principles, OA Green & Gold; Libre & Gratis Structure of today; Overview Panton Principles; science info public & open; BBB - Budapest, Berlin, Bethesda; Green & Golden; Open Access terminology; Stallman terms - Libre and Gratis; IP rights
5 17:34 Scholarly publishing, copyright, fair-use Scholarly publishing - diff betw Arts & Sciences; Publishers & copyright defence; difficulty knowing what constitutes Fair-Use
6 23:29 Permission barriers, options for using materials Permission barriers; options for using materials; costs and how the Panton Principles save them; licensing cascades; freeing scientists from ip worries; tech transfer
7 28:38 Open Science and definition of Open Open Science; protection of IP; Open areas - differences between them; Core Open principles?; Privacy; "Open" - too broad (Open API); Mendeley; OKF definition of Open Service;
8 35:20 OKF overview; CKAN, Open Standards OKF overview. CKAN.. Data.Gov.UK. Open Standards; Panton Principles.
9 38:35 Order Food Order food. Two Texans!
10 40:55 Open DataCommons; Open Science Data Open Data Commons, Panton Principles. Making scientific data open; motives for sharing. Wiki page "Open Science Data". Technology adoption curve; Creative Commons in early majority phase. OA publishers; BMC & PLoS.
11 45:40 Motivation for Openness in science Motivation for openness in science. Main Actors are: Funder, Reader, Publisher, Author. Author - reach more people. Altruism. Research Funders - the public pays for it, they want results to be public. In US, results have to be available after 6 months. Not just final manuscript; record of expt also important. Reader: Want access to everything. Publisher: Gatekeepers of manuscript. Costs involved; how do you fund? Charge institutions.
12 53:49 Moving to Author-Pays funding model Challenge to move to Author-Pays from Reader-Pays. Transition means hybrid model - paying twice, funding author-submission & also paying for Journal subscription. Univ motive = more people see it, raises their profile (Southampton, Univ Queensland). Leiden/Ghent(?) - promotion based on Open Publications.
13 57:21 Open tipping-point; rate of change; disruptive technologies Are we close to a tipping point? Music industry; things move faster than expected? Budget pressures unsustainable. Disruptive technologies - web, twitter, facebook. 5 years time - hope for real-time capture of all our info. Vanova Bush's Memex. Capture all dimensions of expt. But, how to make sense of it. Where will it come from? Don't know; web is unpredictable. Success of Wiki. Intelligent clothes. Philip Lord & archiving; self-publishing on Wordpress.
14 63:57 Change inevitable in publishing model Publishing hasn't changed over the electronic era. Tension in system; something must break. B-vitamins & Alzheimers - published in PLoS-1 (non-moderated) - no review of scientific validity. Motivation in science - make your expt repeatable by others. Cost of making data available. Minimise cost-barrier to access. Open Notebook science (Jean-Claude Bradley, Cameron Neylon). Richard Clayton blog - where the group's ideas get discussed.
15 70:29 RAE & encouraging Openness RAE(Research Assessment Exercise) - allocation of funds to Universities. New ways to measure impact? Use Open Data metrics to encourage publication?
16 72:45 Incentivising Peer Review; new metrics for RAE How to provide Peer Review function in new system. Journals have two filters: 1) Is this acceptable science? 2) Does it merit being published in this journal? Fraudulent papers in Acta Cryst. E, falsified structures to increase publication record. Probably happens elsewhere. How to incentivise peer-review. Give "recognition points"? Multidimensional metrics - inevitable arguments over weighting. Differences between disciplines in citation opportunity. Chem4Word; 100K+ downloads, no recognition; website, 10^6 hits per month.
17 81:34 The future for Peer Review Peer Review - can crowd-source replace Peer Review? Or PLoS model? Is science valid; Is it meritorius? Validity: want to know formal comment on B-vitamin paper before taking them. Meritorius?: web tools can give some indication. Blog rolls, citations. Linked Open Data; rotten tomatoes; box-office success. Twitter buzz - good predictor of box office success. Chemistry blogosphere.
18 90:39 Housekeeping reality check Rufus arrives; progress check on today; what should I ask? Splitting into tracks
19 93:49 Mendeley; recruiting researchers; peer-to-peer issues Mendeley; move to something else, how to get there, get researchers on-board; give researchers a must-have tool; The web & walled-gardens; semantic web; putting power into the client; bibliographic info & citations; harvesting reader's opinions would be powerful; centralist providers of info; legal issues sharing papers peer-to-peer (Napster model)
20 102:11 Database rights; need & power in filtering & finding info Whoever constructs a database may be the person who ends up with all the rights; Rufus paper on models of scholarly publication; finding stuff - matching people with info; ability to filter & identify papers to read is important capability; info about filtering could be more valuable than the actual info; power in controlling info;
21 108:19 Business model for Open Info - opportunity! How to build business models in Open Information; achieved in Open Source; Need Solution!; opportunity for smart people to move quickly to create new markets;
22 110:25 Wired article next steps Next steps re Wired article; recent Wired article on Open Data
Present: David Dobbs, Jordan Hatcher, Peter Murray-Rust, Rufus Pollock, (Brian Brooks recording)
Total length of recording = 1hr 52m 56s
Track# Start Time Track label Topic
1 00:00 Introduction Introduction; Panton Papers; licences; Stephen Harnad; Panton Discussions #1 - Richard Poynder; drinks;
2 06:03 David interests Outline of his interest; main obstacles to moving to Open Science; PD#1 discussion; Neylon blog - hardest part is replacing peer review; John Lubbex & peer review
3 08:15 David background Background & interests; everything is CC-BY; science writer, neurosciences, history of science; Charles Darwin book; big pharma & mess of publishing; editor Wired saw Mendeley presentation; Richard Grant; give researchers a tool that they need; working on article; divide interview into chunks
4 12:17 Panton Principles, OA Green & Gold; Libre & Gratis Structure of today; Overview Panton Principles; science info public & open; BBB - Budapest, Berlin, Bethesda; Green & Golden; Open Access terminology; Stallman terms - Libre and Gratis; IP rights
5 17:34 Scholarly publishing, copyright, fair-use Scholarly publishing - diff betw Arts & Sciences; Publishers & copyright defence; difficulty knowing what constitutes Fair-Use
6 23:29 Permission barriers, options for using materials Permission barriers; options for using materials; costs and how the Panton Principles save them; licensing cascades; freeing scientists from ip worries; tech transfer
7 28:38 Open Science and definition of Open Open Science; protection of IP; Open areas - differences between them; Core Open principles?; Privacy; "Open" - too broad (Open API); Mendeley; OKF definition of Open Service;
8 35:20 OKF overview; CKAN, Open Standards OKF overview. CKAN.. Data.Gov.UK. Open Standards; Panton Principles.
9 38:35 Order Food Order food. Two Texans!
10 40:55 Open DataCommons; Open Science Data Open Data Commons, Panton Principles. Making scientific data open; motives for sharing. Wiki page "Open Science Data". Technology adoption curve; Creative Commons in early majority phase. OA publishers; BMC & PLoS.
11 45:40 Motivation for Openness in science Motivation for openness in science. Main Actors are: Funder, Reader, Publisher, Author. Author - reach more people. Altruism. Research Funders - the public pays for it, they want results to be public. In US, results have to be available after 6 months. Not just final manuscript; record of expt also important. Reader: Want access to everything. Publisher: Gatekeepers of manuscript. Costs involved; how do you fund? Charge institutions.
12 53:49 Moving to Author-Pays funding model Challenge to move to Author-Pays from Reader-Pays. Transition means hybrid model - paying twice, funding author-submission & also paying for Journal subscription. Univ motive = more people see it, raises their profile (Southampton, Univ Queensland). Leiden/Ghent(?) - promotion based on Open Publications.
13 57:21 Open tipping-point; rate of change; disruptive technologies Are we close to a tipping point? Music industry; things move faster than expected? Budget pressures unsustainable. Disruptive technologies - web, twitter, facebook. 5 years time - hope for real-time capture of all our info. Vanova Bush's Memex. Capture all dimensions of expt. But, how to make sense of it. Where will it come from? Don't know; web is unpredictable. Success of Wiki. Intelligent clothes. Philip Lord & archiving; self-publishing on Wordpress.
14 63:57 Change inevitable in publishing model Publishing hasn't changed over the electronic era. Tension in system; something must break. B-vitamins & Alzheimers - published in PLoS-1 (non-moderated) - no review of scientific validity. Motivation in science - make your expt repeatable by others. Cost of making data available. Minimise cost-barrier to access. Open Notebook science (Jean-Claude Bradley, Cameron Neylon). Richard Clayton blog - where the group's ideas get discussed.
15 70:29 RAE & encouraging Openness RAE(Research Assessment Exercise) - allocation of funds to Universities. New ways to measure impact? Use Open Data metrics to encourage publication?
16 72:45 Incentivising Peer Review; new metrics for RAE How to provide Peer Review function in new system. Journals have two filters: 1) Is this acceptable science? 2) Does it merit being published in this journal? Fraudulent papers in Acta Cryst. E, falsified structures to increase publication record. Probably happens elsewhere. How to incentivise peer-review. Give "recognition points"? Multidimensional metrics - inevitable arguments over weighting. Differences between disciplines in citation opportunity. Chem4Word; 100K+ downloads, no recognition; website, 10^6 hits per month.
17 81:34 The future for Peer Review Peer Review - can crowd-source replace Peer Review? Or PLoS model? Is science valid; Is it meritorius? Validity: want to know formal comment on B-vitamin paper before taking them. Meritorius?: web tools can give some indication. Blog rolls, citations. Linked Open Data; rotten tomatoes; box-office success. Twitter buzz - good predictor of box office success. Chemistry blogosphere.
18 90:39 Housekeeping reality check Rufus arrives; progress check on today; what should I ask? Splitting into tracks
19 93:49 Mendeley; recruiting researchers; peer-to-peer issues Mendeley; move to something else, how to get there, get researchers on-board; give researchers a must-have tool; The web & walled-gardens; semantic web; putting power into the client; bibliographic info & citations; harvesting reader's opinions would be powerful; centralist providers of info; legal issues sharing papers peer-to-peer (Napster model)
20 102:11 Database rights; need & power in filtering & finding info Whoever constructs a database may be the person who ends up with all the rights; Rufus paper on models of scholarly publication; finding stuff - matching people with info; ability to filter & identify papers to read is important capability; info about filtering could be more valuable than the actual info; power in controlling info;
21 108:19 Business model for Open Info - opportunity! How to build business models in Open Information; achieved in Open Source; Need Solution!; opportunity for smart people to move quickly to create new markets;
22 110:25 Wired article next steps Next steps re Wired article; recent Wired article on Open Data